According to a talk-show host that looked all over the country and
was talking about it on his show, there was a “rash” of incidents with
school kids. Let’s see, Thursday.
I think the kids think its “cool” to be able to talk to their
other peers and tell them about what they do. Well, something has to be
done about this. I would tell you what the talk-show host and others
blame it on, but that would probably start a debate that never ended.
Some parents were acting strange also. Parents taking a base-ball bat
to school to, I guess, be arrested. Strange people. Try the relaxation
response. It takes time to work, maybe a month, be when you feel deeper
relaxed, you will know. Concentrate on your breathing and quiet your
brain activity so you dwell on no one thought, let them pass just out
without dwelling on life’s problems. Negative thoughts you have to
consciously do, it takes practice, say cancel, cancel to yourself
should one come in. In a quiet place, and undisturbed for about 20
minutes.
Something else needs to be taught to kids in school.
What has all this to do with time travel?
This thread has a life of its own, traveling itself through time. It may end up in the year 2036, before its done.
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-09-2001 05:58 AM
Not to get too morbid, though its interesting to me, as the premise
of John’s situation is that in 2012 the world is at war. Not hard to
see why, with a whole generation of kids wondering if they’re next to
see a friend go postal.
There’s more to this topic, ten year olds become 20 year olds and
carry the day etc. Its not a stretch to believe a civil war is
imminent. That’s all
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 06:53 AM
“There wasn’t a rash of incidents. There was one major incident at a school followed by editors running as lead stories
anything that involved a kid and a weapon nationwide. No San Diego
incident = no “rash” (the wire services wouldn’t
pick up on the stories) And a small correction. Unless UC Santa Cruz ALSO had four students run over, it was UC
Santa Barbara (actually in Isla Vista) where the students were run
over – about two miles from my home and 250 miles
from Santa Cruz.”
Actually… there was a rash of incidents. I’m aware of seven
different things that happened here in Colorado yesterday, alone. I’m
certain there were dozens of other such incidents throughout the
country yesterday.
Here we had 2 bomb threats, 3 “civil disturbances” at other schools
in other areas, and there was a kid here that placed a “fake bomb” in a
school in Colorado Springs. There was reference to something else like
a gun being found in another school somewhere, but I didn’t catch the
location.
So.. that was just MY state. How about other states?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 07:03 AM
I need to continue this thought here. First of all, we have in most
of our school systems something called a “Zero Tolerance Policy”. This
equates to a “Zero Common Sense Policy” based upon the busdriver
incident alone. Anyone listing to the kids talk would understand the
kid didnt make a threat, he made a statement.
We have a society where political correctness (read: Thought
Control) is the norm. Kids aren’t allowed to carry a pocket knife (I
carried a HUNTING KNIFE on my belt when I was in grade school, in
Kentucky… as I walked through the woods to school. No one ever said
ANYTHING to be about it.)
Anything that can be construed as a weapon is banned, even if it isn’t a weapon.
The media has the attitude that banning this or that is newsworthy (i.e. guns, kids getting in to fights in school etc).
So, what we really have (all of this above, plus all the other
little things that nag at us every day) is a society waiting for
something bigger to trigger something else.
Now, I’m not saying that we’re waiting for that civil war, but I AM
saying that we have placed ourselves in a very sensitive, precarious
position by making everything so “hair-trigger” likely to put something
else into motion.
Time moves forward for us, and those nodal points of change can be anywhere in our future.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-09-2001 07:11 AM
Judging by the endurance of this thread if Mr. Titor is a time
traveler or not will be a moot point. When this topic is done he will
be in his own time.
Posted by John Titor on 03-09-2001 07:52 AM
____________________________________________________________
I think the day when animals are born, raised on a farm, slaughtered
within 15 to 50 miles of that farm, and sold in the area, is just about
OVER. This outbreak is, in my opinion, the swan song for local farming.
I can hear the very large lady warbling in the background…
If, the virus was released because of the bombing of Iraq in Feb., then
there is ONE more Country that remains to be punished. The US. If the
UK was an act of agraterrorism, then what hell awaits the US?
Of course, please keep in my, this is pure speculation…there is no hard data in to support this theory…YET.
____________________________________________________________
Greetings everyone. I do plan to get to the questions soon. I have been
quite busy lately so I apologize for being a bit slow.
In my travels over your web, I came across this section of a
speculative news article. I would urge you all to take a good hard look
at this idea and consider the possibility that it is true. And…..no, I
did not make this up nor am I trying to tell you something in a
left-handed way.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 08:36 AM
John,
A comment from “the intel department”. I follow global intelligence
extremely closely. Some of us in my security community believe that Mad
Cow disease is not speculative terrorism, it is fact. No proof, but
many, many talking points on the subject can show it. I’ll give you
some examples.
1) The west uses more beef/red meat products than ANY OTHER COUNTRY – in fact more than most other countries put together.
2) Eco-terrorism, by some of the anti-meat eaters has been
considered, but at the same time, it is not conducive to them to kill
animals, because the majority of non-meat eaters in western culture
believe “animals have rights” and would consider such a thing a type of
genocide.
3) Biological warfare is indeed the greatest threat to our society.
It is cheap, easy to produce, easy to release, and most importantly…
biological warfare is “Stealth Warfare”. Biological agents can be
released as an aerosol, into water, into food.
4) What better way to destroy a country than to screw up their food
sources. By creating a messed up animal supply, you thrust the prices
of meat skyward, quickly. You cause the production to drop, loss of
wages, loss of profit, loss of food supplies. You put a strain on
several other food sources to take up for the lost portion of
production.
5) A sudden and deadly resurgence of a disease that hasn’t really
been a problem for decades is a very obvious attack. This is the very
reason people believe things like AIDS is a biological agent that got
loose on society. It appeared quickly in the 80s. It could not be
traced, and what little tracing they showed, claimed it came from
“monkeys” or apes or something (I don’t recall the specifics at this
point). However, AIDS like other such diseases can not simply “begin to
exist” without mutations or some other intervention. Mad Cow disease,
as well as Hoof and Mouth disease (what we call it in America – they
call it Foot and Mouth in the UK) has suddenly appeared with a
vengence. The former is a relatively new disease. The latter is very
old, but, was pretty much wiped out. Suddenly, it is back.
So, we have two things specifically in the UK that are attacking
hoofed creature. Both of which are either new or resurgences of old
diseases. These diseases came about at roughly the same time, and
spread rapidly.
I believe (and I’ve not had a lot of time to research it, but then,
I’m betting it will be very difficult right now to track it precisely)
that this most recent outbreak occured in several places
simultaneously. If so, it was definately a planned and probably well
carried-out attack.
America is NEXT. But, not only will it be something like Hoof and
Mouth, Mad Cow something else will likely be introduced as well. Swine
flu, something that attacks chickens and perhaps some kind of wheat
blight. That would hit MAJOR portions of our food supplies, causing all
the aforementioned problems, plus more.
A major economic crash is likely. THis would weaken the US to a great extent opening us up for other types of attacks.
Currently America is under attack by several former states of the
Soviet Union, many arab states and terrorist organizations already.
They are coming in through computers and networks, probing constantly,
looking for weaknesses, testing our defenses and looking for the proper
time and place to make a major attack.
Things to watch:
A) Increased internet attacks.
B) A MAJOR attack on the internet.
C) Sudden outbreak of any sort of weird animal diseases.
D) Increased readiness of the military in the US.
E) Increased movements of the military in the US.
F) Increased public awareness of police force training, particularily in computer attacks, raids finding “illegal guns”.
G) Attacks on “militia groups” again.
When the latter occurs, be prepared for the Pro-Consitution forces
to get loud, and “in-your-face” attitudes. They will not stand for more
attacks on the Second Amendment.
Anyway – those are from my point of view. Whether I am completely
accurate or not, remains to be seen. However, I believe my data is
accurate, and I am not usually wrong on the “big picture”.
Rick
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-09-2001 08:53 AM
John, busy? You mean you have other things to do on your vacation besides talk to us?
Darby mentioned a few posts ago that he thought possibly the Javier
personna might be a “sophisticated dialogue” construct of our
time-traveller for self dialogue. Eh? We need to examine your
definition of “sophisticated.”
[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-09-2001 at 09:06 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-09-2001 03:27 PM
((Darby mentioned a few posts ago that he thought possibly the Javier
personna might be a “sophisticated dialogue” construct of our
time-traveller for self dialogue. ))
Had you considered the possibility that Javier is the one who made me up? But, as we both know Bob, I am YOUR alter ego.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-09-2001 08:37 PM
John,
Do I sense some covert hostility in that last remark?
Just keeping you honest, how you said I do
.Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-09-2001 09:32 PM
Have you considered the possibility that I made up both Javier and John?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-09-2001 10:38 PM
Hahaha
. Right Pamela. That’s really funny.And everyone is just a figment of my imagination after all
just like I always suspected.Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-09-2001 10:53 PM
The moral implications for the future are real enough. Ever since
the US had to construct the atom bomb, moral questions of what we are
doing now seem to last longer.
Take that we, as people, as humans, are getting into enough gray
areas with human cloning, using human embryos, and such topics of the
day, I think the moral questions will be around longer than they were
in the past. Never before this time had we had to ask ourselves the
morality of civilization. Nuclear weapons are still not really solved,
we seem as humans to be digging a hole ourselves with these questions
which can seem to imply that the probability of future events being
grim becomes more real as we grapple with these questions.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-10-2001 11:51 AM
Albert,
But you think Time Travel is Okay?
Just want to make sure I’m understanding where you stand. Because there
is so much hypocrisy in the world these days. Where some people claim
they are against something bad, but not against something else that’s
bad. Which when you look at it, there one in the same. See what I’m
saying?
Javier C.
Posted by Joe Applebaum on 03-10-2001 02:16 PM
Question for John:
You say that you wear some kind of flight suit like coveralls when
you are time traveling and that you experience 2 g’s for 6-8 hrs. How
is it possible to withstand that kind of g-force for such a long period
without the use of an anti-g suit? If not to keep you from blacking
out, at least to make your time travel safer and more confortable? I
know you must be physically trained for space travel, but you should
also have the benefit of equipment to help you out.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-10-2001 04:27 PM
Javier,
Being in a free country dictates that certain people will do certain
experiments(?) without regard to who complain’s about it. The rest of
us are left to decide other alternative actions to prevent these leaps
of technology from interferring with humanity on (as) a whole. I had
little choice in the making of a atom bomb. If the US did not do it,
than it is probable that Hilter would have. With that, things in the
future would be indeed different. So, as with anything, we are (forced,
as in War) to do a certain number of things. In peace, we are still
(forced) to see what other countries are up to. The fear of America is
that if we fall behind, then someone someway will take control of us.
In the case of the Middle East, I suppose that would be Saddam. In the
case of a time traveler, I doubt he could achieve such a possibility
unless he knew every “connection” to change the events of history. That
part was described in that book by Jonathan Burke in the book
“Connections”. I make no commitment as to the morality of time travel.
Someone will do it, if it’s possible, someday. Otherwise, we have no
freedom. We are left to change things in the future should enough
people agree that time travel is a “bad” thing. But then there might be
“bad” people time traveling and “good” people time traveling in a kind
of “time travel war”.
Posted by John Titor on 03-10-2001 07:26 PM
Dear Fellow Time Travelers:
In about 30 days, I will be leaving this worldline to return home to
2036. I first want to say thank you for the wonderful conversation and
insight into your society. I have learned a great deal and my opinion
on quite a few things has changed dramatically.
I will finish the questions that have been posted on this site up
to this date. Unfortunately, I must now spend my spare time preparing
to leave and I will not be on the computer very much. I do however want
to repeat my offer and add a slight twist.
After going over my flight plan home, I have discovered my VGL holdover
period is a bit longer than I expected. I will be spending at least
three weeks in April of 1998 as I make my way back to 1975. Therefore,
I not only offer you the chance to leave a message to yourself in 2036
but I offer you the chance to leave yourself a message in 1998. I will
take any compiled messages and email addressees you provide and send
them on the net when I get to 1998.
Granted, this will not affect you on your worldline now but you make
take some comfort that another “you” on another worldline has the
advantage of knowing something you wish you knew three years ago. Based
on the earlier questions I’ve seen, I’ve decided a day-to-day record of
the Dow a day in advance should convince you that the messages are real
in 1998.
In addition, I am hopeful a series of photocopies and photographs
will be available for you that may give you more insight into the
technology of the distortion unit. I will let you know the address of
the site when it is available. I also plan to have my parents videotape
my departure. If they succeed, it will also be posted after I leave.
I look forward to these last few weeks with my family and I will check in periodically to check this site.
Live in Peace 2001,
John
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-10-2001 09:19 PM
Maybe Moe Howard is a “sophisticated dialogue” device for Steven Hawkings?
Well, Johnny, you’ve been entertaining for the most part.
Nevertheless, I find it rather depressing that time travel, the most
exciting and profound accomplishment of man, is being put to such banal
and frivolous use. The most wonderful invention possible in all of
human history and they apparently can’t figure out what to do with it
other than arrange for you to amuse us few idjits here on the Art Bell
message board. Kinda makes ya proud. (thniff)
[Not edited by the future Bob Marz on 03-10-2036 at 09:21 PM - message being sent back to 2001]
[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-10-2001 at 09:27 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-10-2001 11:35 PM
Good luck in whatever worldline you return to.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 01:10 AM
Albert,
Well I had a hard time getting through what all your rhetoric was
about. And still didn’t see you actually answer my question. “Where do
you stand?” Well that’s not important now, as I see that you believe
John Titor, A.k.a. TT_0 is for real. So thank you for proving my point
correctly.
Hypocrisy I tell you.
First you came off as inspirational, speaking with convictions about
right and wrong. But in the end, you’re only as much a hypocrite as the
rest of us are.
I however do not tolerate immoralities on any level, and I live my life
according to basic human law. Compassion and principal our my guiding
truths. “We the people” should realize this, and not accept what is
basically wrong. There have been to many compromises, too much
acceptation. But the truth is clear, that despite all of what we are
trying to accomplish, of becoming an advance civilization and people,
we are failing in the worst possible way. And that is by following our
principles.
Just think about that…
John,
I see you finally made your big pre-farewell speech. Very nice, you
almost made me feel sorry to see you go. Then I remembered what you
are. An opportunist.
Well wherever you go, just remember me! And know that wherever you
stand, that somewhere someone with enough guts exists to change the
entire face of Time Travel someday. Your days are numbered…
30 more days huh John? You know that’s a very interesting number. Because I’m going to FL in 30 days also, coincidence huh?
Let’s see in 1998, I was 18 years old. I graduated high school that year
good year. Except for some personal problems. I wrote a story that year
about my new experiences, I think you read it before Pamela. Remember
“Displacement?”
Catch-ya on the flip side,
Javier C.
[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 at 01:13 AM]
Posted by Stephen McKay on 03-11-2001 02:37 AM
John,
These messages to oneself in 1998 sound very interesting.
Is there somewhere I can e-mail it to rather than post it on the board?
Posted by Michelle Esposito on 03-11-2001 03:59 AM
John, I’d like to take you up on your offer for the 1998 message to
myself. I assume your instructions will appear on this thread . . .
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 04:15 AM
Geeeez Louise… See now that’s what I’m talking about, right there.
Talk about being a lost soul.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 06:10 AM
John has asked me if I wouldnt mind collecting the emails for him again and forwarding them to him.
anybody who wants to can write me using my email address found in my
profile and I will forward your letters or “messages to 1998″
,”messages to 2036″ to John.
All messages I receive I will keep confidential and they will be forwarded right to John.
sincerely,
Pamela
[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 at 06:17 AM]
Posted by LaMar Prince on 03-11-2001 06:23 AM
I would like to E-Mail You. I would like to Leave message. Like the
the Poster said I’m sure You will leave instructions?………Peace!
L>P>
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 07:08 AM
Javier —
Didn’t you ever play ‘pretend’ as a child?
Also, why do you feel that you have such a firm grasp on reality right now that you can say such things with such certainty?
I find that, usually, those who shout ‘hypocrisy’ from the rooftops are trying to draw attention from thier own.
Their are so many untruths and myths that bombard us daily, either
through design or simply the uncertain nature of communication, that we
ALL swallow hook-line-and-sinker that most the things you think you
know are wrong.
Since there is no firm basis to rate new experiences about,
generalizing from past experiences can be a dangerous game of darts.
Reserving judgement and thinking things through is warranted.
Quite being so loud the rest of us “can’t” think.
Everybody has an agenda. Everybody has shortcomings.
BBSes are fantasy worlds by nature, and nothing you try can change that.
Let the people who still remember how to pretend play thier games
without too much trouble and you won’t get called names on the
‘playground’.
Life’s all a big play anyway. (Probably a play within a play . . .)
Let the guy play out his ‘final scene’ if he wants . . .
. .. wait, maybe I’m infringing on your pretending .. .
… if I am, my sincere apologies.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-11-2001 08:45 AM
John,
So long and have a good trip home.
As I’ve pondered your experience of being here it ocurred to me
that I should cover my bases and at least try to make a living from the
information that you’ve given us. So…
I’m in the process of filing copyright protection in my name for the following terms:
Temporal Displacement Unit
Variable Gravity Lock
VGL
Variable Gravity Lock Model C204
VGL C204
Model C204
Variable Gravity Lock Model C206
CGL C206
Model C206
Singularity Magnetic Field Coil
Electron Mass Injection Manifold
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 09:58 AM
Javier,
First, I’ll keep the social demise in mind.
Second, I do not believe.
Third, I do not think TT will be solved in my lifetime, therefore I do not have to have any morals about it.
That will be for some future person.
Fourth, from my viewpoint, it is just one of many possibilities that could occur in the future.
Fifth, if TTler is true, then wishing anything to him is just something that I wish upon myself also.
Sixth and most important. There have been problems associated with
the theory presented that neither the TTler or I can resolve at this
time, in my estimation, and I am usually right. So, for the other
people, I leave them also with their thoughts.
I would discuss this in more detail about the problems associated
but I really have got other things to do and these other things are
really more important.
Seventh, to me it has been just an exercise in thought, and I
think humankind have more immediate problems facing us now, that I see
on other websites like the BBC in England and Talking Point or some of
their news articles.
Eighth, that’s all I can do now. I can not solve the technical problems associated with building a time machine.
Ninth, I getting close to the end of my post.
Tenth, when all else fails, count to ten.
Posted by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-11-2001 10:19 AM
Hopefully you can answer my past questions before you leave and send
that message out. It really has been enjoyable watching this thread and
getting to know you John. There is a part of me that wants to believe
and another that says your not a time traveler. But right now I believe
you, and you being here means one way or another time travel is real. I
only hope all my alternate selves are doing well. I was thinking
though, if all these alternate timelines are so similar… Then
shouldn’t another “you” be doing the samething in another timeline,
possibly in infinite time lines? Because if that is so, then another
“you” would go back to our timeline in 1998 per se and we’d actually
get the messages that people are sending. Now, I’m not sure if that is
possible or not. But, in my understanding it seems likely with what you
said about alternate universes.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:31 AM
Javier,
First, Good luck to you in your worldline.
Second, The things the TTler is talking about in the near future will not occur in your lifetime, to me.
Third, Have you visit this website, http://www.nist.gov/
There you will find a picture of an atomic clock at present.
Fourth, Our Solar System is near the edge on an arm of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Fifth, There may be a Black Hole at the center of our Galaxy.
Sixth, I think humankind will have to worry if the Sun, Sol, burns up
first in 5,000,000,000 years or the Solar System gets sucked into the
Black Hole at the center of our Galaxy.
Seventh, Still its nice to dream, or have a fantasy wish.
Eighth, I must really really go now.
Ninth, I will just say that social problems have been around
forever on this Planet, and it is still traveling in space along with
the Milky Way Galaxy, at what I think is, at about 33 miles/second. No
need to be space-sick.
Tenth, Ever since I became, I been traveling through space and
time. Just trying to have a little fun in the great demise of things,
all past, all present, all future, all, all.
Best wishes to everyone on this forum and the world and “Just say No”.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:49 AM
While, I probably get in trouble: specific links:
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwv.html
Good luck All!
[Edited by Mary Rowland on 03-11-2001 at 10:55 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:51 AM
Oops, the other link, while I’m getting in trouble.
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/tour.html
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-11-2001 12:41 PM
John -
In 2036 I will be in the mountains in Colorado. Somewhere west of
where Colorado Springs used to be. Not sure if I will have access to
the internet at that point, but I WILL have access to radio equipment.
Somewhere around January 1-10th, 2036 I will be broadcasting on 28390
Khz, USB. I will look for you there on that frequency in the middle of
the day.
I will 77 years old – and will turn 78 that year.
I expect to hear from you then.
Rick
PS – I AM one of the “farmer generals” John mentioned.
Perhaps not the most famous… but, I will be there.Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 12:42 PM
Randy,
Obviously you must not have been listening to what I been saying from the start.
And people blamed me for speaking for everyone.
((Quite being so loud the rest of us “can’t” think.))
Is it perhaps because I make you think of what your doing, thus spoiling what you what you want to believe him as real?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-11-2001 12:46 PM
Ack!
I forgot to mention that I’ve also listed “John Titor” on the
copyright application – just in case I want to write a book using that
name as a character.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-11-2001 12:58 PM
After spending the last few days working on family business and
keeping my mind busy thinking about time traveling, from John’s point
of view, I have come to a sudden and surprising conclusion.
John is perhaps what he says he is… however, I don’t think he is
a “TIME TRAVELER” – I think he is a world-line, or for lack of a better
word, a dimension traveler.
I say this based on a couple of assumptions. His machine uses
gravity calculations/measurements to maintain his “physical position”.
But, he claims there is up to a 2.5 % divergence from his reality.
That means to me that:
1) He is NOT on his ‘reality” but on ours.
2) He will be going back to his reality – or at least pretty close to it.
3) Our reality is not precisely his reality.
4) There are multiple worlds, multiple time lines if you will and he is no longer on his orginal one.
5) Anything he does here on our time line will NOT EFFECT OUR TIME
LINE EXCEPT locally (time related). That is, if he were to kill
someone’s grandparents here, they would NOT cease to exist on HIS time
line. They would here though. If he goes back to 1975 and does this,
OUR grandparents will be JUST FINE. It is the ones on the time line
where he stopped.
6) John’s machine uses tipler cylinders – somehow. I believe it
would be very possible to create a tipler cylinder using singularities.
A physcist I know confirmed my suspicions on Friday-last. He stated
that such a machine could be built now. He said that it would take some
strong scientific work on the part of linear accelerator scientists
though, and so far as he knew, it hasn’t been accomplished YET, but
will be in the very near future.
7) If microsingularities are made, they can be held in ‘statis’ or
in a magnetic field in a vacuum. According to my physcist that is. If
so, it would be possible to effect them with magnetic fields in such a
manner as to allow them to interact with each other (on that micro
scale).
8) If so – then it might be very possible to speed up, slow down or
even STOP time altogether. In fact, he believes it possible to reverse
time altogether.
9) The effects of using such a machine would be that “high
gravitational fields would be present around the machine”. However, at
this point, neither myself, him nor other folks we talked to could come
up with a way to measure gravity fields with any reliable method.
(Scales, things like that work, but… that is rather crude I think).
10) Anything within the field of a tipler cylinder would be carried
along with the device… the method of “travel” would or could be based
on voltages applied to the magentic fields in some manner as to cause a
change in the rotation of the field.
11) John’s machine will not take him back in time. It takes him to
a diffent time LINE, in a different world, on a different plane of
existence.
Anyway, that’s my 2-cents worth. Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps I’m
right. No matter if John is a real TT or not is moot at this point.
John… take this message back in time to 1998 and … how do you propose to see that we get these messages anyway????
I will post it on my web site, which is already up in 1998.
Rick
Posted by Jim Houlahan on 03-11-2001 01:51 PM
Albert,
Although laboratory standard atomic clocks are huge, commercial
standard atomic clocks are the size of a suitcase today. Given 35 years
of future development, I can imagine four of them fitting into John’s
device. Here’s a picture of the “suitcase atomic clock”…
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cesium.html
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 02:15 PM
Javier —
Since I seldom sub-vocalize as I read, I don’t think it matters
whether I was listening or not . .. . I have been reading and trying my
darndest to understand… from the start.
As to this question:
quote:Is it perhaps because I make you think of what your doing, thus spoiling what you what you want to believe him as real?My answer is simply, “Of course not.”
But you can pretend so if you wish. Pplease understand that
delusion is often a team sport. Or is it that non-delusion is often a
team sport?
Actually, I just have to wonder why you feel you have such a firm grasp
on this reality that you feel confident in many of the things you have
asserted.
But I guess I don’t expect an answer, since I am merely a figment of someone else’s imagination.
Either play by ALL the rules or throw them ALL out — no middle of the road please, I am already confused.
John –
Seems your journey will be forking from some of ours — watch out and don’t forget to smell the roses.
That said, lets disregared the sentimental stuff and keep up the
philosophizing. How about a few more monologues from the main character
here? The stage has been set, and your ques have been uttered.
(Javier — if it sounds like I speak for more than just myself, please just chalk it up to schizophrenia or simmular talents.)
[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 at 02:21 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 03:35 PM
You know what Randy?
I’d expect that kind of a responds from a John Titor supporter.
The only difference between you and me is, is that when I make a
statement like that, but of speaking about morals and principles? I get
an angry rowdy crowd who believes I’m waking them up from their
fantasy. Hence the attacks.
And the difference is Randy, is that there are more of you then they
are of me out there in this world. So no one will ever complain to you
about being hostile, or not being open-minded. Your perfect, you fit
right in the norm of things in society. You’re perhaps the majority of
people who voted for Bill Clinton the second time around. The kinds of
people that support same sex marriages. You’re also the kind of people
that are waiting in line to get genetically engineered, or to clone
your self. Or to just try every “New Fad” that comes into the market.
How low can this countries morals get? I’d hate to find out.
So yes I do have a firm grasp on reality. I’m not blind, I can see very clearly. And I know what needs to be fixed. Do you?
-Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 04:42 PM
Thanks, Jim, I saw that page.
John, if you come back from the past or from the future,
can you call yourself “Power Time Traveler Ranger” in the “Way-back Laid-back Time Machine”.
By the way, is there a way that a yellow school bus can be included in the time field as a way of travel?
That might scare anybody from the past or the future.
Just a thought.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 05:04 PM
Javier,
For your sake, lets hope when you get discussed in the future, all
of John’s time travel buddies in his unit are as nice as he
is………….
hehe[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 at 05:06 PM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 05:09 PM
Craig,
Can you tell them to speed up the development of that device by the year 2014, and bring it down in price so that I can buy one?
I am not joking.
Just a thought.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 05:20 PM
Pamela,
What’s that suppose to mean? Sounded like a threat to me. Care to clearify?
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-11-2001 05:40 PM
Seems pretty clear to me.
“Darby”: Good stuff!
Posted by Anthony Reed on 03-11-2001 05:56 PM
That seems clear to me too. I’m just sorry I’m late to this board.
And why would you be worried anyway Javier? I thought you did not
believe him anyway.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 06:10 PM
Well Anthony,
Like you just said, your late to this board. Of course some details
will be unknown to you. But rest assured, if you read back I answer
that question.
Posted by Donnie Smith on 03-11-2001 08:44 PM
Rick, you are absolutely right. And, what John Titor has said
reflects exactly that. John is from the end result of a reality
shifting movement that is being given birth to now. They have
recognized that time does not exist in the fashion that many believe in
today, only infinite parallel realities in the same or different stages
of history or alternative history. The term time travel is, however,
the closest thing that humans of this period can relate to. In the
future, it has been adjusted to refer to the illusion of traveling to
the past or future. Those realities are mere reflections of where we
have been and where we are going, but are by no means the real mc coy!
Carry on John Titor, Peace from the Eye of Harmony of the Matrix of
this Reality. Have a safe trip.
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-12-2001 08:41 AM
John:
Good luck to you. I do hope you make a visual record of your departure.
Thank you for the interesting thread. And did you ever answer whether
or not you have any siblings?
I have not decided whether or not you are a Time Traveler, but I do
believe the near future you have described is a real possibility, if
not even a probability. Let’s all be prepared and pray for the best.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-12-2001 12:55 PM
David,
Earlier in posts, if I understand it right, he said he was single. Many
stillborn in the future because of the War according to him.
He will probably check back.
Just thought that I include that.
Posted by Ron Polesky on 03-12-2001 01:31 PM
Wow! I have just spent the better part of an entire day reading
EVERY message within this thread and I must complement everyone on a
fine job! This has been some of the most entertaining and thought
provocative writing that I have read in a long time. Great job
everyone! I extend my sincerest thanks, a hearty cheer and (as a first
time poster) a warm hello.
To John Titor I reserve a special thanks for starting this thread!
Your consistency in conjunction with an entertaining narrative complete
with motive, ethics, physics, and general openness is amazing and
enlightening to say the least. However, above all of that, your calm in
facing some staunch and intelligent critics is an inspiration and
something rarely found on message boards when one is met with the fire
of emotion based in disbelief. If I take nothing else from this thread,
your steady coolness under such adverse criticism will be fondly
remembered and hopefully emulated.
Now, onto the crux of this posting:
Whether John is or is NOT a time traveler is moot, based upon my
own personal beliefs and experience. Simply put, the most powerful
component of ANY interaction or activity involving humans is the human
will. Because humans make hundreds or thousands of decisions everyday,
most very minor and immediately forgettable, the possibilities of
potential outcomes to ANY situation in which one is involved is subject
to randomness (chaos?). Our own personal decisions are influenced by a
multitude of factors such as mood, health, weather, stress,
intelligence, finances, family, interactions with other people, past
experience, future expectations, hopes, personal and societal myths…the
list could be endless.
And, of course, we are subjected not only to the outcomes of our
OWN decisions but also to those of others. For example, one poster
noted that a simple and common occurrence with a child potentially
helped him avoid a tragedy. If one accepts that my statements are true,
then it requires no giant leap of faith to also agree that this
randomness prevents anyone from EVER predicting a future event that
involves the decisions of humans.
Let us assume for the moment that John is indeed a traveler from
2036 and that all his statements are 100% fact. Within his own
timeline, these major occurrences of a civil war and a nuclear
holocaust have occurred and, based on a randomness factor of 2.5% one
could speculate that the same could occur here. We do, after all, have
the SAME people involved. However, 2.5% is a HUGE variable given the
already incalculable odds that a small decision by a child, for
instance, could change the whole scenario or outcome.
History is rife with stories of decisions that seemed meaningless
at the time averting or causing major disasters or occurrences. We even
have several words and terms to describe these things: luck,
misfortune, angel on my shoulder, God watching over me, wrong
place/wrong time, caught a break, etc. In fact, one of our favorite
pastimes as humans is “what if”. Given these factors, it is little
wonder that John will not give short-term “hard facts”…because he
doesn’t really KNOW! And, I speculate he knows he doesn’t know.
Just because Duke, for instance, won the NCAA tournament in 2001 in his
timeline is no assurance the same will happen here (if they and their
opponent score 150 points total in the championship game, nearly 4
points or 2.5% are going SOMEWHERE..add decision making under stress
and there is simply no WAY that an outcome could be predicted with
certainty).
Regardless, whether OUR future is the future that John “remembers” or
not, the randomness of human will and the factors impacting it will
insure a different outcome, for better or worse, in this timeline.
Different decisions cause different actions which nearly always render
different results.
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-12-2001 02:30 PM
Ron Polesky:
Very good post. I wish you had been able to be here all the time.
You have drawn some conclusions that are thought provoking regarding
John’s or anyone’s ability to predict the future.
I, for one, take what many many find to be a simplistic view of
time travel theory, and that is that should time travel become
available, there is nothing any time traveler can do to change or alter
anyone’s timeline because it already has happened. I guess I would add
that if my theory is true, Javier, then you have nothing in which to
worry regarding John or any other Time Traveler.
Just my two cents worth….
Posted by Randy Empey on 03-12-2001 02:46 PM
Javier –
There is a difference between a John Titor supporter and a person who believes John Titor is a time-traveller.
I support John Titor in his effort to have a discussion in this thread.
I’ve reserved judgement about his veracity because there is simply
no way of knowing, and very little to be gained by guessing, even if I
guess right.
Frankly, I don’t think it matters whether he is hoaxing us or not.
It is the interaction and exchange that occurs here that matters.
Why is it that the moment I question the nature of reality and ask
you to do the same, I become a nazi-lovin’ liberal-satanist wannabee in
your eyes?
Javier, I am unique, friend. There are only one ‘of me out there in this world’. As such, I can’t out number you.
People will complain about anything and everything, as you now are proving.
I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be.
Norms do not exist.
I never voted for Bill Clinton — your wrong on that one too.
Same sex marriages are just plain sick and wrong, IMO.
I don’t see how you can know how I stand on genetic engineering and
human cloning when haven’t even decided for certain — you really are
amazing.
Next time you chose to share a diatribe with us, please don’t engage in
character assassination as you do so. It makes it hard to see that much
of what you say agrees with the way I see things.
If you really are against John Titor and rational discussion in this
thread, calling names is the best way to declare your alignment.
Once again Javier, I must ask you (and I direct this at everybody
else too): Why are you so certain that you do have a firm grasp on
reality? Are you sure you see and understand all things very clearly?
How do you know what you know?
Indeed, do I know what needs to be fixed?
At times I feel I do, and I often act upon my beleifs and impulses in
an attempt to ‘fix’ the world . . . but, at other times, I wonder
whether its me or the world that needs fixing . . .
Proving things is impossible in this realm.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.
It means the reward is in the trying.
The idea is to keep learning (ad infinitum) until you finally do
know everthing. And not to stop when convenient and declare that the
end has been reached.
.
Lets talk about the possibilities, since there are no certainties.
Excuse this outburst, it just felt right at the time.
Its not over till the fatlady sings John.
— Randy E.
Posted by Kevin Spooner on 03-13-2001 04:10 AM
There have been almost 19,000 views of these posts since its
inception and that alone gives credit to the number of people who are
interested in this topic.
Given the extreme interest (and it is extreme) and the number of
people who no doubt repeatedly visit here (as I do) even if not to
always post, but to READ… that is incredible.
John has stated he is ‘leaving’ in about 30 days. Someone else is
critical of that. If John said he was going on a two month Time travel
excursion for a particular reason, someone else would be critical. If
John said he’s making some kind of adjustment to his devices, someone
would be critical. Hmm.
Given that there is in my view no problem in relating information
by John – given the odds that his timeline deviates from ours by around
a possible 2.5%, it would seem fair to this threads viewers for John to
provide a thorough discourse on what his timeline offers (afterall
John, there’s no way you can be judged on that given your noted
deviance.)
It seems most of us are acting as if its the last goodbyes – but
don’t forget he gave us 30 days (or given himself the same.) Can we not
make use of that (whether he is or is not a TT is irrelevant.)
Perhaps final concrete questions could be answered at this time? We’ll see. There’s nothing to loose is there?
Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 06:32 AM
I’m going to try and get to the remaining questions today. Pamela
has been collecting the email and forwarding them to another address.
In respect for your privacy, I am not reading them. I am only planning
to forward them.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-13-2001 07:28 AM
Randy,
((It is the interaction and exchange that occurs here that matters. ))
Even if that interaction is generating a group of people following him,
praising him, looking up to him as this perfect role-model? It could
all just be a front, but they don’t care. They should however be made
aware of this. Just look at how those people in “Heaven’s Gate” felt
towards their founder? Mighty similar to what is happening here, and it
makes me sick to see it.
I am reminded of this quote. I don’t know who said it, just got it
out of some book with quotes: “Use your eyes. Sometimes those who offer
us eternal salvation surround themselves with dead plants.”
How many people here wish they could go with John in to the future?
How is that any different then those people who wanted to get on the Hale-Bop spaceship to Heaven?
((Why is it that the moment I question the nature of reality and
ask you to do the same, I become a nazi-lovin’ liberal-satanist
wannabee in your eyes?))
Because you and lots of people are 1 sided individuals, who can’t
conceive the possibility that I can actually be right about John and
Time Travel.
((I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be. ))
I agree, I’m not either.
((I never voted for Bill Clinton — your wrong on that one too. ))
I said: “You’re perhaps the majority of people who voted for Bill Clinton the second time around” I didn’t say you did.
((If you really are against John Titor and rational discussion in this
thread, calling names is the best way to declare your alignment. ))
Is there something wrong in what I am trying to accomplish here? Am I not trying my hardest too?
I am also reminded of this quote: “Give the world the best you
have, and it may never be enough. Give the world the best you’ve got
anyway.”
((At times I feel I do, and I often act upon my beleifs and
impulses in an attempt to ‘fix’ the world . . . but, at other times, I
wonder whether its me or the world that needs fixing . . . ))
So your uncertain, I’m not. I know what needs to be fixed. I’ve seen it, I still see it. If you only knew…
And for the last time, yes I do have a firm grasp of reality. But
if you wish not to accept that answer, because it’s not to your
expectation, then I ask you to please stop asking it, for I will not
answer it again. Because there will not be a good enough answer for
you, no matter what I say.
((Proving things is impossible in this realm.))
I can prove things in this realm. Something’s are harder then others though.
((The idea is to keep learning (ad infinitum) until you finally do
know everything. And not to stop when convenient and declare that the
end has been reached. ))
The end will come when justice is served. I am merely trying to see
that justice gets served in the mean while. Cops do it all the time; do
you blame them for doing their job? I see something wrong, I have to
help. I can’t let someone down, especially if there is something I can
do about it.
((Lets talk about the possibilities, since there are no certainties. ))
Say’s you. But I don’t think I will take your word for it.
-Javier C.
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-13-2001 07:40 AM
I will certainly miss this post when Johns gone . Maybe we can keep
it alive until 2036! If you’ve followed this thread you’ll notice I’ve
tried to keep a lighter side to my responses, mostly stupid comments
meant to break up the intense scrutiny some people have put John under.
As far as the most verbal of John’s critics, Javier Cortez, if I’m not
mistaken he has posted his age on the birthday thread as being 21 years
old. That could explain a lot. Now age is not that relevant, but
maturity rarely comes at that age. He is not a “Time Cop” as he states,
rather he probably harbors that fantasy. This is not an attack or
threat or anything of the sort. Just a statement of fact.
As far as John goes, it would be great if he is who he said he was. I
cannot pass judgement on him. All I can do is thank him for this most
interesting thread and wish him “God Speed” and tell him to keep the
Chevy out of the ditch.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-13-2001 08:01 AM
Mel,
The Time Cop statement was hypothetical. And I am very mature for my age, thank you very much.
Good-day,
Javier C.
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